Ep. 31: The New Era of SERIALS for Authors

In this episode, Gina and KimBoo discuss the concept of serials and subscriptions for authors. We provide updates on their own writing projects and discuss the differences between serials and serialized novel and explore the history of serials and how the internet and technology have made them more accessible. We emphasize the creative freedom that serials offer to authors and why they should consider exploring this format!

Takeaways:

  • Serials are a form of storytelling that involve sharing installments of a long, complex story with nested story arcs.
    The internet and technology have made serials more accessible and popular, with platforms like Wattpad and Reem Stories providing opportunities for authors to share their work.
  • Serials offer creative freedom to authors who want to explore expansive storytelling and break free from the constraints of traditional publishing formats.
  • Authors should consider serials if they have a story that can be told over a longer period of time and want to engage readers in an ongoing narrative.
  • The Around the Writer’s Table podcast will be returning in January with episodes focused on the Creativity Quest and the seasons of writing!

 

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Ep. 31: The New Era of SERIALS for Authors

Dave Hogan, Gina’s Pop
0:02
Welcome to Around the Writer’s Table, a podcast focusing on the crossroads of creativity, craft, and conscious living for writers of all ages and backgrounds. Your hosts are Gina, Melody, and KimBoo, three close friends and women of a certain age, who bring to the table their eclectic backgrounds and unique perspectives on the trials, tribulations, and the joys of writing. So pull up a chair and get comfortable here around the writer’s table.

Gina Hogan Edwards
0:43
Hello, listeners, this is Gina Edwards, and you are here with Around the Writer’s Table. Joining me today is one of my co-hosts KimBoo York. And we’re going to have a conversation today that was started in Episode 30. But before we do that, what’s been up with you, KimBoo? How you doing?

KimBoo York
1:07
I am well. As we were talking before we actually started recording, I am very busy these days. I have my ongoing fantasy romance novel, The Queen’s Aerie, is going up every week. I’ve got—

Gina
Where?

KimBoo
Yeah, well, yeah, good point. Where is it? You’d have to look for it. It’s a secret. No. So I have early access chapters going up on my Ream account, on my Ream stories subscription account. So if you want to support me and read the early chapters before everybody else, then you can join me there. If you’re okay with waiting, I’m uploading a chapter a week on— Gosh, everywhere Wattpad, Royal Road, AO3, Substack. If you follow me on Substack, you’ve probably seen some chapters uploaded. So that’s all out there. 

Transmigrated Teri has been delayed a little bit, but I do expect to get that started posting again in December. 

Gina
Please, I love that story. 

KimBoo
You do. I realized one of the things that’s holding me back a little bit is it’s KidFic, which means that it’s about children. And the main character isn’t a child; she’s a full-grown human, but she’s basically taking charge of these children. And I realized, ooh, I as someone who’s never had children, hasn’t been around children, I think I need to do a little research on childhood development, because I’m just like, what do you do when you’re nine years old? I don’t know. I mean, I remember what I did. But so that was a little bit of that.

Gina
2:35
But we know you’re weird.

KimBoo
2:40
Like it doesn’t count at all. And of course, my next book on ‘discovery writing,’ all about discovery writing—which you’re helping with, Gina—is coming along really well. And I expect to be able to get that out sometime in January. No hard release dates yet, but it’s going to be soon. 

Gina
Awesome. And I can’t wait for that one.

KimBoo
I know, I know. And thank you for your support. Pushing me along has really helped me get it going as quickly as it has. I’m enjoying it too. It’s a lot of fun to explore that topic. 

So yeah, that’s what’s up with me. And what’s up with you, Miss Gina? What’s in your life, aside from all the travel you’ve been doing? And will be doing? We’re recording this right after Thanksgiving, so we’re going into December. But you’ve got some travel coming up?

Gina
3:23
Yeah, yeah, this time of year is always, I think a little bit tricky for all of us. And just lots to do and a combination of family and fun stuff and necessary stuff, and just trying to juggle it all. But I’m still, I would say, I’m still in that sort of reintegration stage after the last writing retreat. Had a conversation yesterday with one of the women who attended the last one, and both of us noted that, this time, it has taken us longer to get back to our normal worlds. And that happens often because we’re in that secluded sort of sheltered and safe environment of the retreat, and sometimes coming back to the real world can be a little overwhelming.

But I’m already looking forward to 2024. I’ve got a date set for the May retreat; there are still a few spots left for that. And then I’ve got a couple of women who’ve already registered for the Fall Retreat, which will be in October. So, both of those are well on their way. 

I’m also, like you, publishing chapters of my novel, and we’re going to talk a little bit about the differences between what I’m doing and what you’re doing in this episode today. But my historical novel, Dancing at The Orange Peel, I am publishing both on my Ream stories platform and on Substack and the difference between the two is that on Ream stories, if you’re a real history nut, you can join me there to get annotated chapters where I talk a lot about the elements of Americana and pop culture that are happening at the timeframe of my novel, which begins in 1968. So there’s a lot to talk about, as we know about that year. There was a lot going on both culturally, politically. So many different things were happening at that time. And it’s been fun for me to do a deep dive into some of those aspects of it and been a lot of fun pulling those chapters together.

KimBoo
5:35
I love the annotations. People, go check it out. Join her Ream page and get access to that. Because if you’re a history nut, especially for that era, she’s done so much research. You’ve done so much research, and the annotated chapters are just fascinating. Absolutely fascinating.

Gina
5:56
As most historical fiction writers, I just love going down those rabbit holes and finding out really obscure facts about things that sometimes I wonder if anybody cares about but me. But I’m having fun doing it. So I’m sure there’s somebody out there that would find it interesting. And we’ve mentioned several times, so I’m doing this, this year, and that there. So tell the listeners, KimBoo, how they find you and all of these different things that you’re doing.

KimBoo
6:24
Man, yeah. So I’ve created an online hub web page called—for everything that I do—is called the House of York (dot) info, HouseOfYork.info, which is online, a website, and it’s got links to everything. I’m trying to rearrange it a little bit so it’s easier on people, but if you don’t know where else to go, and you’re looking for where to find me, then House of York (dot) info will get you where you want to be, whether it’s my books, or my podcasts, or my online blogs, and pictures of my dog. You know, it’s all there.

Gina
6:56
Awesome. Okay. Yeah, and for me, you can find out all the different things that I’m doing on GinaHoganEdwards.com/Links. And ‘links’ does have a capital L. The rest of the letters don’t matter, but the L in links does need to be capitalized to get you to the right place.

KimBoo
7:17
You’ve got a lot going on too. So, check us out, people.

Gina
7:21
Let’s talk about serials, KimBoo. This is a topic that I absolutely knew nothing about until I met you.

KimBoo
7:34
Bringing you over to the dark side, is that what I’m doing?

Gina
7:38
Well, I don’t know. So far it’s been the fun side is what I have to say, because it has given me some creative energy and possibilities that I never did see before. So I’m really excited about that.

We talked about subscriptions in Episode 30. And I encourage our listeners to go back and listen to that if you aren’t familiar with the concept of what ‘subscriptions for authors’ is. Basically, think like, so you find your favorite author and they’re writing, deep dive, into all kinds of fiction that you really enjoy reading, and you can actually subscribe to them, just like you would subscribe to Netflix. But you get a lot more than just buying their book on Kindle. You get, in some cases, swag and backstory and research tidbits and connections with the author that you cannot get if you’re just going on to Amazon and buying their book. So there’s a lot to it. 

And it has been mind-blowing for me. And the first thing that I had to learn when I found out about this thing called subscriptions for authors is what a serial is and what the difference between a serial and a serialized novel is. 

So I’m going to shut up and let you, first of all, introduce the listeners if they don’t know about this concept of serials.

KimBoo
9:11
As I say it’s one of the oldest forms of storytelling, actually. I think everybody knows what a serial is. It’s one of those things where you know it when you see it, but for a lot of authors, we never really thought about it because the model for publishing for like the last 100 years, at least, you know, 120 years has been novels, magazines, some. And serializing stories in  magazines definitely went up through the mid 20th century, or the 1900s as the kids are saying these days, making us feel super old. But I know how my grandmother felt. She was in her 20s in the early 1900s, so she’s probably feeling the same agony that we do. 

But in the modern era of the Internet, what’s really changed is that there are many different ways to tell stories online, and so this has resulted in a resurgence of serialization. And this gets back to the confusion that you were talking about. So, serialization: what is that? Well, that’s just sharing installments of a story over a period of time. 

But serialization can apply to any type of format. Format is a short story, a novella, a novel, an epic poem, or a serial. Any one of those formats can be serialized, even short stories. A short story is 10,000 words; you might do ten 1,000-word installments of that story to your newsletter or on your blog. There’s no limit to what you can serialize. 

But serials as a format is something that hasn’t really been talked about too much, because people do that confusion: Well, it was serialized. That makes it a serial. I’m like…nah. 

I have purposely portioned that out, or pulled that out, as a unique format for storytelling. So what is a serial, then? Very broadly, a serial is a very long, complex story with nested story arcs. And I think that is really the superseding definition of separating it out. 

Can a novel, a very long novel, have some nested story arcs? It can. These aren’t scientific terms; there are definitely gray areas between them. I was just talking with another author about that, because she has, you know, a couple of novels and a novella and side stories, and she’s like, “Is that a serial?” And I was like, “Well, it can be.” I mean, if there’s an overarching, long-term story arc that these all play into, even if it’s a little disjointed and out of order, it can still be a serial. 

The definition might not necessarily be just one very long story. An example, modern example, of course, is the manga One Piece, which a lot of people are very familiar with. The anime is up to its 1,000th episode. 1000 something. Yeah, it’s been running for years. The live action just started; everybody’s like, it’s only up to like Episode Five. Like, no, no. The anime has been around, and the manga is even longer. I think One Piece has been going for over 20 years. I’d have to check that, but it has been going for a long time. 

But it’s the nested story arc feature that I think is really important to serials, to separate them out from anything else that’s being serialized, because a nested story arc means that there is a long story arc, and then there are shorter, what I call ‘seasons’—some people are calling them ‘short arcs’—where individual things happen, but it has a structure to it. But it all plays in under the umbrella of the long story arc. 

And there can be multiple seasons of arcs of stories going on, and even overlapping, but as long as they’re nested under a larger story arc, to me, that’s the definition of a serial, as opposed to—and this is something we were talking about, Gina, a little bit before we started recording—a ‘universe,’ a shared world or something like that, where all the stories are set in a particular universe or a particular type of setting, but they don’t necessarily have a larger story arc as an umbrella over-though. So that’s more of a universe. Does that make sense?

Gina
13:46
It does. Yeah. So I’m thinking particularly in terms of the novel I’m working on right now is set in my fictional town of Kent Creek, North Carolina, and it is my intention to, because there are so many characters and, of course, they all have their own backstories and their own sets of drama that are separate from this one novel that I’m writing, that I will probably be doing some related short stories, and they may have sort of tenuous connection with certain parts of the novel. 

If any of our listeners are familiar with the historical fiction writer Eugenia Price, one of the things that made me fall in love with her was, I would be reading one novel that something that I had read of hers two years before alludes to, in sort of a vague but yet apparent way, but it was not necessarily a related story. There might be some connection of the characters or a character who knew a character, and that sort of thing. But I can see that that is totally separate from what we’re talking about in terms of serialized works and serials.

KimBoo
15:02
It is. I would say that it is related because when you have a shared world like that—and, to me, this is all going back to what I was talking about earlier is the level of freedom that authors now have to create these kinds of entities. You could have a shared world, The Kent Creek Chronicles, which is I know what you call it, it can have a novel, which is Dancing at The Orange Peel. It can have short stories, which might focus on individual characters. And then who knows, maybe down the road, you will create a serial, which might be the arc of one of the families as they go through generations. Right? So there’s a lot of different ways that authors can set these things up. And my goal with talking about serials is to let people know that there’s another option on the table. It’s not just novellas, novels, short stories; there’s also serials. And you might work towards building a serial. There’s just so many different ways authors can do it these days. It’s just kind of, some people say it’s a free-for-all. But I’m just like, it’s amazing. It’s like a playground to me.

Gina
16:07
So, where did this begin? I know, there’s lots of other platforms that some of our listeners might not be aware of. Radish and Wattpad and Royal Road. I’ve heard you talk about those. They’re not things that I’m familiar with, but those are places that I understand that serials have been very popular. So can you fill us in on that a little bit?

KimBoo
16:34
So serials, like I was talking about earlier, it goes back to the ancient pre-history of humanity. In modern terms, there were serialized stories. Everybody uses Charles Dickens as an example, because so many of his novels were actually serials, are serials. I would say the super long ones definitely are serials, and they were intended to be serials. 

But that kind of fell out by the mid 1900s. By like 1950s, you still had some pulp magazines out there—that were science fiction magazines, genre magazines, romance magazines—that were doing a few serialized stories, but serials themselves had kind of fallen out of vogue, like those super long running things. What really took over then was the long epic, big novels, whether they were just literature or you know, Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia. You’ve got just a lot of these really. And represented these days, of course, by the Song of Fire and Ice, Song of Ice and Fire... I don’t know, the dragons one. I get it mixed up. So no offense to fans of that particular franchise, but I’m just not that familiar with it. 

But when the internet hit and a lot of authors started exploring different ways of sharing their work—and I’m trying to remember who wrote The Martian. Do you remember? I know. Oh, my gosh, this is so embarrassing. I should know this one, like off the top of my head. He started serializing his novel The Martian when no traditional publishers would pick it up. I really should get the dates on that. But that action of his represents what was kind of already going on in the background with a lot of other fringe authors. As you know, I’m in the fanfiction community. One thing I always say is, man, if you want to know what’s going to be popular in five years, look at what’s being done in fanfiction right now, because there’s really a lot of exploration and trying new things out and figuring out what’s going to happen. 

And when Live Journal became really popular, which was the early 2000s, fanfiction went from just being a story that got emailed to you or got printed in a small-run ’zine, to being posted in chapters and installments on Live Journal. So you have these different pieces coming together in that time span. 

And then you have, ta-da, ebooks. Kindle appears. People are buying, suddenly, ebooks have become marketable and usable and readable, which was a big technological hurdle prior to that, that a lot of publishers and platforms were trying to figure it out. So you have this mishmash, a convergence, I should say, of different things happening. You’ve got people who, especially younger readers, who are getting used to reading things in serial format, and then you have the technology catching up. And then you have Kindle coming in, and people getting used to having stories immediately on their little electronic device. 

And then the big kick-up, I would say, in the modern world, in the West—now, I’m speaking specifically of the West, China, especially Asia—has their own history with this. It’s just fascinating but could be a whole separate episode. 

Wattpad hit, I think, 2010. No, later than that. 2015, 2014. It took off with romance readers and fanfiction readers. But its success was so impressive and so widespread and so big, that publishers sat up and took notice. And that was when you started seeing Vela and Radish appear. You started seeing other platforms happen. Royal Road. And then, of course, leading up to what you and I are on which is Ream, which is a platform specifically designed for authors of all genres, to have a place for our own subscription platform. 

And so that’s kind of, you know, getting back to the idea of how it came about. And in regards to serials, as all of this technology and all these convergences were happening, and all this was happening, people started going back to serials. And I call it ‘going back to’ rather than ‘discovering’ because the serials have always been there, but they’ve just kind of been on the side, or they’d kind of been sidelined, or they were on somebody’s blog. 

I think Far AwayThe Wandering Inn. The Wandering Inn, which is a serial that’s been going on, also, maybe about 20 years and is up to, I think, 12 million words long now. I don’t have that’s not a personal goal of mine. But, like The Martian, it was started on the writer’s website. And that made it a big hurdle for people to do. As an author, that was difficult to do if you didn’t have the technology background to put it out there. And that hurdle’s basically gone away. And so readers who like— Is that my dog?

Gina
22:02
That is your dog.

KimBoo
22:06
Well, thank you, listeners. Welcome to Keely’s world. So we’ve had this convergence, confluence of technology and desire, and as this has developed, people have started requesting… I’m trying I’m stumbling over my words, Gina, because I think it’s been very organic that readers have come to want serials. I think it’s feeding off of the old television model of series with multiple seasons. It feeds into people wanting an ongoing story and having… I mean, come on, Supernatural went for like 13 seasons; it was embarrassing. But it’s a serial; people wanted it. People wanted to stay with those characters. They wanted to keep reading about them and they wanted to keep… That’s why fanfiction is so popular to begin with. People don’t want to let go of the story. And so writers, as some of us who really love expansive storytelling, which is what I love, like massive world-building and long-running stories, have realized that we can do this now. Like we can do this. The technology is there. The audience is there. The will is there. It’s, for me, it’s very exciting.

Gina
23:27
Let’s talk a little bit about why an author should care about serials. Why are we talking about this? And what opportunities does it offer to authors? Why should they care?

KimBoo
23:40
Because if you’re just a writer who likes writing your little 50,000-word romcoms, and you’re happy like that, then no. Don’t care. That’s fine. Nobody’s gonna force you to sit down and write a 500,000-word serial. But I think for some of us, like me, who love the world-building, who love having long involved stories, it represents a creative freedom. 

You and I’ve talked, Gina, in the past, a little bit on this podcast about how frustrated I was when I got into the romance genre market. How frustrated I was with the constraints of the format. I wanted to keep writing stories longer. And when I wrote Wolves of Harmony Heights, which is kind of a supernatural, polyamorous romance hodgepodge of tropes, I was really hard pressed to end it. But I knew I needed to because it was already a long novel. I think that book is about 195,000 words, and I was desperate not to make it to 200,000 words because I thought, I just can’t sell it. And I couldn’t figure out how to break it into, say, a trilogy or break it into two parts, which everybody told me I should do if it’s that long. 

But what I had done, instinctively, was write a serial, which was why I couldn’t break it into a trilogy, because it was just too connected. I could have possibly broken it into like five parts, five minor arcs that are going through the whole story. I was recently re-editing that and kind of noticed that, but at the time, I was just so excited to write about these characters and write this story, man, ending it was a trauma. And just a few years later, when I realized the possibility of doing serials and writing just as long as I wanted the story to go, as long as the readers would take it, I was like, man, that’s what I’ve been wanting to do all along. 

So if you’ve been feeling frustrated by the format constraints of your genre, or your story, structure, whatever you’re doing, consider serials. Maybe it is, you really want to break out of that and do something completely different, because we have the freedom to do that now.

Gina
25:57
Well, we’ve used a lot of terms and made some references to a few things that we haven’t dived too deeply into, and I want to bring up the fact that you have a book about this called Be an Unstoppable Storyteller, that really clarifies, what is the difference between a serial and a serialized novel? And, what does a serial really look like? I had the good fortune of editing this book, and I learned so much just in the editing process. And the thing that really opened up for me when I realized that serialization and serials are a possibility was, you know, this time last year, I had a novel that I was working on. When I was introduced to the idea of subscriptions and serials, suddenly, I had a world. Kent Creek became more than just the setting for one novel. All of a sudden, all of these different story ideas, some of them related and some not, but all of these different possibilities, and so when you mentioned creative freedom, that to me is one of the things that really rings true and is a draw for me toward this idea of both subscriptions and serializing.

KimBoo
27:23
Uhm hm. And that’s just what’s so exciting for me as well, because I can write novels. The Queen’s Aerie, which I was talking about at the beginning of the podcast, which is my romantic fantasy, polyamorous story is a novel. It is a novel, as it’s in the can. It’s got a front and center and an end. It’s got one story arc, and it’s a novel that I am serializing. And I’ve got Transmigrated Teri, which is going to be a serial, which I hope is going to be a very long-running serial. And I can do both. 

Yeah, I’m not tied. Like you were saying, it’s like, Ooh, I have a novel, and that’s all I’ve got. That’s all I’m allowed, ever. Like who said that rule, right? But you’ve got Kent Creek Chronicles. And now that’s just opened the door for you to just write about the whole history of that little village, burg, town, the people, how it’s changed over the years, and you can really explore the history and how it fits into the larger history of the United States. 

So, to me, I think it’s what I’ve been longing for my entire life, really, as a writer, is just the freedom to be able to share what I want to write with people who want to read it in whatever format that suits the story best, rather than suits the publisher best.

Gina
28:45
Until I realized, until I learned about the fact that subscriptions and serials are a possibility, I didn’t know that that was what I was longing for. And I think that that’s why when I did discover them, that the sparks flew. I mean, all of a sudden, for months, I was just having one idea after another after another. The platforms now and the technology is so much easier than it used to be. This possibility could not have existed, did not exist, when I first really got serious about my writing a couple of decades ago. And I couldn’t have even dreamed that this was a process or a way of doing things that I would really embrace, and I’m so excited about what can happen, what I’ve got in store for me ahead.

KimBoo
29:43
I’m excited for you as well because, listeners, let me tell you, I was in the car with her when she had some of these ideas. It was just like, boom, incredible idea for a story, and it was just exciting to see that. I think for me, I sublimated a lot of that into the fanfiction that I did because I got back into fanfiction about 2007. And I didn’t see the possibilities for me as an original fiction writer until recently as well. So I do understand that moment where it all opens up, like, the universe expands. 

That’s one of the reasons why we’re doing this podcast. We want to be able to share with other authors who maybe don’t know that, and are still stuck on ideas of what they can’t do instead of looking at what they can do. And serials is a part of that. And serialization is a part of that. And subscriptions is a part of that. And it’s just an exciting time to be writer.

Gina
30:37
I agree, I agree and listeners, please do explore this topic further if we’ve piqued your interest about it. You can do that by looking up KimBoo at HouseOfYork.info. Did I get that right?

KimBoo
30:51
You did. There’s a link directly to the page about Become an Unstoppable Storyteller right there at the top of that page, so people can find a link to it, whether they want to buy it from my store direct or if they want to buy it off Amazon or Barnes and Noble or Kobo, Kobo Plus, as well. So you should be able to find it in a lot of different places.

Gina
31:11
We’ve kind of deviated from the sort of schedule that we had set up for ourselves in terms of the topics in our podcast, and we had been talking a lot about The Creativity Quest, and then also associating the things in the creativity quest with the seasons, which our other co-host Melody A Scout talks about. And we’re gonna get back into that after the first of the year. So, with the holidays and everything, we thought this would be a good time for us to kind of throw you guys some bonus episodes about other topics. But beginning in January, we will be getting back to talking about The Creativity Quest and the seasons of writing. 

KimBoo
31:55
We’ve got that planned out. We’ve got some really interesting topics on those points ahead of us, as always. Gina, your creativity quest, I know you’re planning to put that together as a book. But for people who, you know, kind of want to sneak peek or get ahead of the curve on that, definitely listen to the episodes. We’ve already put a lot of them in the can, if you want to go back and listen to former episodes. And, of course, subscribe so you can listen to them as they’re being released after the first of the year. It’s interesting stuff. I’m learning a lot even after all this time. You teach me so much, Gina.

Gina
32:29
Thank you, thank you. We’re all on that journey. And we’re on it together, and we may be experiencing it in different ways, but there are also a lot of similarities in what we experience, and sharing those is important, I think.

KimBoo
32:43
Yeah, yeah. So definitely, check us all out. This episode’s coming out in mid December. We will be back in early January with our planned schedule going into The Creativity Quest and seasons of writing. 

Gina
Back to two episodes a month.

KimBoo
Back to two episodes. Back to three co-hosts. Melody will finally be off the road. She’s been traveling more this season than I think any other season I’ve known her. She’s been on the road a lot, but she will be back. So join us. Then subscribe. Hit the LIKE button. You can find us on YouTube, all your favorite podcasts distribution, Spotify…

Gina
33:23
And on our website at AroundTheWritersTable.com.

KimBoo
33:26
Yes. And on the website, we’ve got transcripts, a contact form if you’d like to leave a contact. And on older episodes, we usually have worksheets and handouts that are available on the website.

Gina
33:36
For this one, we’ll have some links to different things that we’ve talked about here at the bottom of the show notes.

KimBoo
33:43
Yep. Gina’s gonna hand craft those links just for you, listeners. So check it out, and we will be talking to you next year. All right.

Gina
Happy New Year. 

KimBoo
Happy New Year, y’all. Bye.

Dave
33:58
Thanks for joining us around the writer’s table. Please feel free to suggest a topic or a guest by emailing info@aroundthewriterstable.com. Music provided with gracious permission by Langtry. A link to their music is on our homepage at AroundTheWritersTable.com. Everyone here around the writer’s table wishes you joy in your writing and everyday grace in your living. Take care, until next time.

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Around the Writer's Table and its co-hosts, Gina Hogan Edwards, Melody, A Scout, and Kimboo York own the copyright to all content and transcripts of the Around the Writer's Table podcast, with all rights reserved, including right of publicity. ​​You ​are welcome to share an excerpt from the episode transcript (up to 500 words) in media articles​, such as ​​The New York Times, ​Miami Herald, etc.; in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., ​​Medium); and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided you include proper attribution and link back to the podcast URL. No one is authorized to use the Around the Writer's Table logo, or any portion of the transcripts or other content in and of the podcast to promote themselves.

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