Hey everyone, we’re here with our latest episode of Around the Writers Table! Today we dove into the next phase of Gina’s Creativity Quest model: Integrating and Dedicating. This stage is all about bringing your creative identity out into the open and committing fully to your work.

Gina led us in a discussion about what this stage demands, including honesty, self-review, and resilience in the face of potential criticism. We also connected it to concepts like Steven Pressfield’s Resistance and Caroline Myss’s advice on growth patterns. Melody and I shared our own experiences with claiming our identities as writers publicly. We hope you find it insightful for your own creative journey. Thanks so much for listening!

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Ep. 36: Creativity Quest: Integrating and Dedicating

Dave Hogan, Gina’s Pop
0:02
Welcome to Around the Writer’s Table, a podcast focusing on the crossroads of creativity, craft, and conscious living for writers of all ages and backgrounds. Your hosts are Gina, Melody, and KimBoo, three close friends and women of a certain age, who bring to the table their eclectic backgrounds and unique perspectives on the trials, tribulations, and the joys of writing. So pull up a chair and get comfortable here around the writer’s table.

Melody, A Scout
0:42
Welcome back, everyone to Around the Writer’s Table. I thank you all for joining us today, taking time out of your precious day to hang in there and see what we have to talk about. We’re gonna talk more about the creativity cycle today. And Gina’s gonna tell us about that. 

But I’m just going to introduce myself. I’m Melody, A Scout, and I help my clients find their sense of home by restoring balance and harmony to their lives through plant spirit medicine and my books Soul of the Seasons, available at most online retailers. And I’m also a gardener and a landscaper and a general lover of plants. Welcome, everyone, and KimBoo, Can you introduce yourself today?

KimBoo York
1:35
I can. I have my coffee and I’m ready to go. I’m KimBoo York. I am a professional author. I write genre fiction, romance fiction, science fiction fantasy. I am also a productivity coach for writers. I help with accountability and productivity and career design, letting people know what they need to do to advance their writing career to the next step. Yeah, I’ve got a lot of irons in the fires, y’all. I know. But that’s it. You could always find me at my website. And that link is gonna be all over the website when we get done with it. So I won’t bore you now. But that’s it for me. Just busy writin’.

Gina Hogan Edwards
2:21
I’ve got to add in one more thing, though. 

KimBoo
What?

Gina
You are the facilitator and creator of the 1 Million Words Club.

KimBoo
2:31
Oh, yeah, that’s right. Yeah, the 1 Million Words Club, an online community for writers, membership community for accountability. I know that sounds terrible. It scares a lot of people, but it’s really a supportive environment. It’s meant for—

Gina
Super supportive.

KimBoo
Yes, isn’t it though? I just love it. We’re small, but we’re mighty and we’re growing. And there’ll be more information about that in the show notes as well. But I am really excited about that one because, you know, my goal is always just to help people get to writing. That’s the whole point. You got to start somewhere. You got to keep going. So thank you for that, Gina.

Melody
3:06
Yeah, I’ve already heard some great buzz on the 1 Million Words Club.

KimBoo
3:12
Awesome. 

Melody
Good for you. 

KimBoo
Yeah.

Melody
3:15
All right. Also joining us this morning is—I’m sorry.

Gina
No. Go ahead. 

Melody
Okay.

KimBoo
3:22
Welcome, readers, to the madhouse.

Melody
3:28
Yes. Feel free to cut this out in the edits.

KimBoo
3:32
I’m so not. Definitely not.

Melody
3:37
A couple of sandwiches short of a picnic today. All right. Gina, my fellow podcaster. 

Gina
3:46
Hi, buds. Okay. Let me get my breath. I’ll be happy to. It’s wonderful to be here, as always. We get to have a lot of laughs together both on and off the mic. My name is Gina Hogan Edwards, and I am a writing retreat leader. I am a writer. I write historical fiction. I have been participating in Kimboo’s 1 Million Words Club, trying to get words down on the page. And I also support writers, particularly women, in finding their voice and leaning into their creativity. Cool. So that’s why we’re here today, right? That’s what we’re going to talk about today, right?

KimBoo
4:30
Craft, creativity, and conscious living. That is why we’re here.

Gina
4:34
So I, many, many years ago, conceived of this idea of, I’ve called it The Creativity Cycle. The Creativity Quest is what I’m referring to it as now, and in previous episodes, we’ve talked about many of the previous stages of that. We are now up to the second “I” in creativity because each of these stages, you end up with the acronym of CREATIVITY in looking at each of these stages. 

So, the one we’re going to talk about today is called Integrating Creative Identity [aka, Integrating and Dedicating]. And this is, if you’ve not listened to some of the previous episodes where we’ve talked about this, just to give you a couple of highlights, there are 10 stages, and the first five are primarily inner work. And we are now into the second five, second set of five. So we’re talking about things that involve outer work. 

This particular stage of Integrating Creative Identity is really where creativity and the artist’s life is no longer compartmentalized from the rest of their life. They don’t just create under the cover of night, so to speak, that they’re actually bringing themselves out into the world. And while this has happened to a certain degree in a couple of the previous stages, it’s particularly relevant right now, because of this integration of looking at their creative life as a real part of the whole, rather than it being something separate that they keep apart from the other aspects of their lives. So fusing the creative self with the rest of their everyday existence, committing to their identity, as a creative person in their chosen field, whether that’s writing or painting, or dancing, or sculpting, whatever it happens to be. Just that outward wearing of an identity as a creative. No more masks. No more hiding. All of the learning and all the actions and everything that this creative person has done, up to this point, becomes integrated. 

And I previously called this stage Integrating and Dedicating, because it requires a dedication to greater productivity and to even greater mastery. The passage through the previous stages up to this point bring you to this sort of deeper evolution of your art and of your Spirit and of your soul. It truly is this coming together of all of the parts. 

One of the things that this stage demands of us is a need to bring the skills of objectively observing ourselves, of honesty with the self, which we’ve talked about in several of the previous stages as we’ve explored those. It involves some of that same sort of personal review of where we are, where it is that we want to go. We did a lot of this in that inner work stage of Assessing and Acknowledging, earlier on. And just as judgment came up there, which was largely, even though we might have been sharing our work a little bit at that stage, because this stage is so much more visible, because you are beginning to do that outward wearing of the persona of a creative, judgment really comes up in spades at this stage. 

Along with that comes this feeling of “I’ve come so far now. And now I’m letting everyone see me as an artist.” And so it can feel like there’s a lot more to lose, if things don’t go well. And if that happens, if things don’t go so well, then that may result in a crisis, similar to what we talked about in Acknowledging and Assessing, which means that the creative person might fall back into some of their bad habits or some of the chatter in their head that doesn’t move them forward. They may lapse into imposter syndrome or perfectionism. Again, it’s a deeper feeling than it is in that previous stage of Assessing and Acknowledging because it is so much more public at this point. 

The creative might also go back and repeat certain stages like the Emulating and Mirroring stage in particular, because that can feel like a retreat to safety, following your mentors rather than following your own passions and your skills and your uniqueness. Sort of reverting back into more of a learning stage than a real expression stage. Or it might even take the creative all the way back to the Carrying Inner Disquiet stage where they’re not creating it all. Now—

KimBoo
10:09
Gina, I’m gonna interrupt you, because I’m kind of curious as you go through this. How would you relate this to Steven Pressfield’s idea of Resistance with a capital “R”? Like, it’s all part of that. Is it related to that? Would you consider it something completely different?

Gina
10:23
Definitely not different. I think Resistance as Steven Pressfield talks about it, which, you know, some people will call it fear. There’s different names for it. But he terms it Resistance, and it’s just basically that wall that keeps us from creating. And I think that the way he defines it, that that is something that is always there for every writer, it may show up to different intensities at different stages. But yeah, I guess the simple answer to the question is, it is irrelevant at this stage. But I think it is also relevant at every other stage. It may just present itself differently, because as Pressfield talks about, Resistance with a capital R can be kind of sneaky, and it can show up in different ways for us. 

I do encourage listeners, if you have not picked up that book, it’s a tiny book, you can almost read it in one sitting. And it’s also, because it’s written in very short chapters, it’s one of those books that you can just pick up and randomly open and read an individual entry at any point, if you’re feeling blocked or stuck or just feel like you need some sort of inspiration. 

But I do think that that resistance can be particularly pervasive at this point. Because it can be related to the judgment that we’re receiving from other people. Not as much in terms of self judgment, although that can show up here too. But because like I said, this stage is so visible, it is so out in the open. We’re not hiding ourselves anymore as a creative person, that when outside influences start coming into play, that that resistance can really stick its head up.

KimBoo
12:10
Okay. All right. Well, thank you for humoring me on that question. It just came to my mind as you were talking about it, because maybe it’s just me, but that’s something I think of.

Melody
12:19
It actually reminded me, too, one of my favorite authors and teacher Caroline Myss, spelled M-Y-S-S. I was at a conference where she was speaking, and we were talking about, I asked a question, “How come, how come it is, when I get ready and I go into the next level personally or spiritually, that I find myself reverting back to old patterns?”

KimBoo
Oh, yeah.

Melody
I made this growth and progression. She said, “That’s a great question.” She said, anytime we step into something new and our fear comes up, we will automatically reach for those old patterns, which were comforting to us, may have served us in the past. It’s just a natural reflex to do that. She said, that really isn’t the problem. The problem is, do you stay there? You may do it. But do you stay there? Or do you recognize, hey, look at me do this thing, you know, reach back into my past for comfort, or whatever it is. And she said then to make different choices.

Gina
13:42
That’s beautiful. 

Melody
13:44
That has always stuck with me. And I think for me, personally, this step is challenging at times, because it certainly has been in the past, because it’s not just me, inside my head, but me now declaring in some way to the world: I am a writer.

KimBoo
14:12
Big scary words.

Gina
14:15
Yeah. And in declaring that, putting that out into the world, there’s the danger of other people’s opinions getting into your head, too.

KimBoo
14:30
Yeah.

Gina
14:31
I appreciate you sharing that about Caroline Myss, because it in a way it’s related to this last little point that I wanted to make. When there is the tendency for us to reach back into the old habits when things seem to be going good, there’s also the danger at this stage when it feels like things are going well, that we’re getting some acknowledgement, that we might be getting some accolades. All that can feel really good. But there’s a danger that the creative might get comfortable in that and just sort of settle here in this stage. Because that can feel good, right? And you just want to kind of wallow in that for a while. And then what happens is that the creative doesn’t fully live into their complete potential. 

The other thing that could happen is that, long-term, if the creative has taken that approach and settled into this stage, because it feels good, but they’re not stretching themselves anymore, then long-term, they might get bored. And hopefully, that would be the impetus to take them into the next stage, called Trusting the Process, which of course, we’re not talking about today. But that might, may be the propeller into the next stage. Or like I said, the creative might just decide they’re gonna wallow in people saying, “Oh, you’re really good,” and just kind of stay here and not really stretch themselves any further . And then they’re not living up to their full potential. So I have a couple of questions for you, ladies. 

KimBoo
16:22
Oh, no.

Gina
16:27
Never fear. I’m going to ask you a couple questions, but I’m going to pose them . . . it’s the same question posed in a little bit of a different way, because we all come from different places in terms of the kinds of writing that we do, and when we started our writing, and when we started living into this idea of being a creative person. So when it comes to your identity as a creative person, thinking about the kinds of responses and reactions from your friends and your family, or maybe from new groups that you’ve gotten involved in, and maybe even strangers—first, I’ll go to you, Melody—do you remember what it felt like when you first stepped into your creative identity publicly and you revealed to the people in your life that you wanted to be a writers? Tell me a little bit about how did that go? What did it feel like? And how did you navigate that? What were the reactions that you got? 

Melody
17:31
Ah, so, that was a couple of different steps for me. First of all, it was almost 30 years ago that I can’t even remember how I found out about it. But I saw at the senior center, they had a writing critique group, and I had been playing around with the novel, and I thought, well, that’d be good place to go learn about my writing. So I kind of showed up. It was a great little group. One or two people in there are still friends to me to this day. They were really helpful and supportive. It was sort of like the first time I had publicly presented my work. We’d read and then people would offer feedback. It was a good experience for me and really helped my writing a lot. 

Now revealing this to the people in my life was a different process altogether. So my husband at the time, when I started, he didn’t bother so much with a novel, but when I started writing some more personal things, and I submitted them and got them accepted, really bothered him. He was okay with me being a writer. But it wasn’t like I was writing about him. So, but that really bothered him a lot. And we had several high-level discussions about my writing. But whatever it was, at that time, that did not deter me. I kind of concluded that’s his issue, not really mine, and I just kept writing. 

Now, the first time I ever said out loud, “I am a writer,” which is different than “I’m writing things” for me, because that was claiming that as my identity, was to my partner at the time, and it was actually during the process of, or just before, somewhere around the time I was started writing my book. And it kind of felt weird to my own ears to claim, say, “I am a writer.” It felt a little presumptuous of me, just because I hadn’t ever claimed that for myself, and his response was he laughed. 

KimBoo and Gina
Ooh, yeah, ouch, ooo. 

Melody
Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of things people have done that hurt my feelings. But apparently, that was not one of them because I looked at him, like, whatever, and just kept on. It did not deter me at all. So I just pretended he didn’t even say it.

KimBoo
20:46
Goo for you.

Gina
20:48
I applaud you for your resilience in terms of both responding to how your husband at the time put up whatever blocks that he put up. And then, I think that with you telling your partner that and it not bothering you, or maybe it bothered you and you dismissed it, however it played out, that you were able to do that, because even though it might have felt a little weird or a little foreign to you, you knew that that was the truth of you know, that being a writer was was true to you. And so that I applaud you for being able to embrace. 

Melody
21:40
Yeah, thank you. It really, I was kind of surprised that it didn’t bother me more than it did. But apparently, I had grounded myself. I’d come to accept it enough. I knew there was no question I would be writing and finishing this book, which was no small task. And I like, yeah, I guess you can click claim you’re a writer. You invested your time and energy and money into it.

Gina
22:13
Mm hmm. I’ll add to that, I think you were really lucky in engaging with a group that from the outset was supportive, because that doesn’t always happen for writers. We’ve talked a lot before about my love-hate relationship with critique groups. And so, your story is a really good example of how important that can be for a writer in terms of, at the very beginning of the writing process, making sure you’re surrounding yourself with the right kind of supporters. I’m sure that that would have had to have contributed to your later resilience with your husband in your partner, because you had gotten some validation from that group.

Melody
23:05
It is true, and I got some great encouragement and good compliments on my writing. So yes, that did help that a lot.

Gina
23:14
Excellent. Excellent. So I’m gonna frame this question a little bit differently for you, KimBoo. Since you’ve, at least to my knowledge, you’ve always claimed your identity as a writer, probably from like, thumb-sucking age.

KimBoo
Pretty much. 

Gina
So I’m curious if maybe there was a time when you were engaged with a new group that didn’t know at first that you were a writer, but then later learned of it? And how did that go? You know, again, how did that feel to you? Once your identity as a writer was revealed?

KimBoo
23:56
Well, I think the real question is, because you’ve pointed out I was identified as a writer from very, very young age, right? So for me, it’s less about the times that I was talking about where I was a writer, which felt very natural, right, like, “Well, yeah, I’m a writer. I do. I write. That’s what I do.” I don’t have any problems with telling anybody that. Except when I did. So for me, the flip side is hiding it. Purposefully, hiding it. Purposefully, holding back that I am a writer and saying, “Well, you know, I can do some technical writing or I can do a little bit of copywriting if you need me to or, you know…” I’m not talking about any fiction writing. Purposefully, hiding it. 

And there’s a, and I don’t want to make a one-to-one, because it’s certainly not. But I have always liked the frame of the queer community on coming out. Right? So coming out is not a thing you do. Coming out as something that you have to do repeatedly, over and over and over again. You might come out to your family. But then you might come out to your co-workers. You might come out to people you go to class with or school with. You might come out to strangers you met at a party. It’s an ongoing thing. It never stops in our society. 

So for me, obviously, like I said, don’t want to make a one-to-one correlation there for obvious reasons. But for me, being a writer admitting that publicly, was more along those lines of finally saying, “I’m not going to hide who I am anymore, because I am a writer, and I’ve always been a writer, or more accurately a storyteller.” And I need to own that. 

Sso most of the time, I think the times that I did it, I kind of gauged the safety valve. Are these people I trust? Are these people I’m okay with? I do remember when I was working in higher ed at Florida State University, where I was specifically in a role that had nothing to do with writing. I was the Assistive Technology Coordinator for the Student Disability Resource Center. It had nothing to do with writing. And at the time, I had written a few romance novels and published them under a pen name in order to keep it separate from my professional life. Right? In higher ed environment. And one of my bosses I trusted and told her that I was a romance writer, because I knew that she liked the kind of books that I write. I was like, “Hey, maybe you want to read this?” And she was like, “Oh, that’s great.” And I remember, a few weeks later, she was talking to one of our colleagues, and she just turned to them and said, “Did you know KimBoo is a romance novelist? She writes books under a pen name.”

Gina
Gulp.

KimBoo
Right. And I was kind of, it really had I remember that moment vividly. Not because I was mad at her or upset when I was a little discombobulated. But because I had not, I had not told her it was a secret. I just had assumed that she would know that that was kind of on the downlow. So I can’t really hold her accountable for that. But that was a moment where it really made me question the premise, as Becca Syme is always saying. You question the premise. Why am I hiding this? Why am I not owning this thing I know to be true about myself? And I think from that moment, which was probably 2015, was really the start of the journey of me coming out as a writer to everybody equally all across the board, and simply learning to be myself. Because I had to do that. 

Some people can have multiple pen names, and just write multiple genres. And they love it. That’s how their brain works. But re-consolidating my writing, under my name, and making it all my work has been a very important process for me. And I can kind of point to that moment of being forcibly revealed as a romance writer to somebody who I would never have ever told themselves, because this other person told them. Yeah, kind of put me on the spot, and maybe forced me to rethink some things

Gina
28:12
I didn’t consciously put together when I was preparing for this episode, but you talking makes me recall how over the last, I don’t know, year or so, you’ve been pulling together all of the pieces of your writing that are under the pen names and under your own name and putting them all under this umbrella of House of York. And that is an actual, tangible representation of integrating your creative identity.

KimBoo
28:48
Yep, here I am. I am. I am your example for the day. Thank you. But yeah, that’s exactly what it is. And one reason why I named my business House of York, because I’ve got my grief memoirs and my new grief blog about being an adult orphan, Patience and Fortitude. I’ve got my fiction across multiple genres. I’ve got my nonfiction craft book for other writers. And of course, the advice is always, “Well, put one under each pen name, and then you could focus your marketing and all that sort of stuff.” But I have fought hard to be integrated. Dammit. I am ready to be integrated with all of these versions of me being who I am. Sorry, I got on my soapbox a little.

Gina
I love it. 

Melody
29:33
I love it too. I love that analogy. And I got to thinking for my own history, and I think it is actually a very appropriate analogy of coming out as a writer, because it is an extremely vulnerable and personal thing to claim for yourself.

KimBoo
30:01
Yeah, I think on the personal level, I can see that. Socially, I don’t know. But I agree, it is a matter of vulnerability, which is why I was so thrown when I was kind of forcibly revealed to someone I had not planned on. And it’s like, could have been very upsetting.

Melody
30:18
Yeah, exactly.

Gina
30:21
I’ve lost track of how many writers that I’ve worked with as an editor, who, when they finished their book, or they were in the process of, they were going to write under a pen name. Now, people have a lot of different reasons for wanting or needing to write under a pen name. But I’m going to say 95 times out of 100, it was simply because they had not yet owned this idea of them being a writer. That they couldn’t say the words, I am a writer. They couldn’t claim that identity. Are you all familiar with the concept that Julia Cameron talks about in her book The Artist’s Way called the “shadow artist”?

KimBoo
31:14
Yeah, yeah, I do remember that. Yeah.

Gina
31:18
Yeah. So the shadow artist is someone who has the longing, has the desire, so they’re probably Carrying Inner Disquiet, if you’ve listened to our previous episodes. And yet, they sort of hide behind other creative people. I realized well into my career as an editor that that was what I was doing. And that I was afraid to come out as a writer myself. That I was being the shadow artist. 

KimBoo
Yeah. 

Gina
I would do my writing, but I wasn’t talking about it.

KimBoo
31:56
Kind of your version of a pen name. It’s not really me, I’m not really doing it. 

Gina
32:02
Exactly. So, being able to publicly say, “I am a writer,” has been a very slow evolution that has come about in various steps and stages. One of them was that recognition that I was using my professional career as an editor to hide behind that and sort of keep my own writing under wraps. And that it was time to not do that anymore, which is what I’ve spent the last year attempting to do. So I am very much in this Integrating Creative Identity stage. And there are still, it’s interesting, because there are still people in my life who are not fully aware of all of the creative things that I’m doing and all the things that I’m putting out into the world, and I find myself questioning why I haven’t been more overt in sharing that.

KimBoo
32:58
That’s a good question. Yeah.

Gina
33:02
And I don’t know the answer to it, but I’m working on it.

Melody
33:05
Well, I have to also add that there may be some wisdom involved in revealing that, in who you reveal that to. Like we talked about in previous episodes about critiquing, and being very conscious of who you’re handing your work off to. At a different time in my life, both my second husband’s and my former partner’s comments would have really left a mark and maybe just possibly even put it down altogether at a time where I didn’t have the inner resolve or the inner strength that I had developed over time. And so I think there could be some wisdom in how and whom you decide to reveal your work with in some instances. If you’re writing fantasy or erotica, and you have a job that could suffer because of that knowledge, you really do need to be aware. 

KimBoo
34:12
Yeah, that’s true, too. That’s very true. But I think, you know, Gina, in watching you go through this process, too. I mean, you’re now posting chapters of your book in progress, Dancing at the Orange Peel, on Ream in serialized format. Like, you’ve really, yeah, you’ve owned it, girl. You’ve owned it. 

Gina
34:31
And what I realize, as Melody was talking just now, was that a time comes when you no longer have the privilege of choosing who sees your writing. Once you get a certain body of work that’s out there, especially like, KimBoo, you’ve got so much out there. You don’t know who’s going to go on Amazon and buy it. You don’t have the luxury of choosing who sees your creative work. And so that’s where the resilience really comes in. You’ve gotta have that kind of “I don’t really care what anybody else thinks” attitude sometimes because, of course you want your writing to have an effect on the reader, and you hope that it’s the effect that you intend to have. But there comes a time when the artist has so much of their work out there that they no longer have any control over who sees it and what the opinions of it are going to be. We’ve just got to be comfortable with that. We don’t have a choice at some point.

KimBoo
35:37
Well, I think at this point, we’ve covered that topic a little bit. I mean, we could probably keep going on, but I know we’ve got another . . . we actually are going to be continuing into the next episode. Because, Melody, we’re going to be looking at the seasons of writing perspective. And if you could give us a little bit of a sneak peek on what the next episode is going to be. And then we can wrap up and move on.

Melody
36:02
Yeah, KimBoo, this specific topic about claiming and integrating your creative identity, for me most specifically, falls within the season of Fall. Fall is the season about knowing and valuing who you are, and what you are, and owning it. So that to me has a direct connection to this topic. Absolutely. Yeah.

KimBoo
36:37
And we’ll be digging into that on the next episode, which will be episode 37. We appreciate you, listeners, listening and joining us here. If you can, give us a thumbs up or a heart or whatever, wherever you’re listening to us. If you go to our website, you’ll have access to our downloads and resource links and transcript. And there’s links to all that in the show notes, and a worksheet. Yep, we got plenty of stuff for you there at our website. So please check us out. Give us some reviews. 

At the website, you can also ask a question. If you go to the episode page, there is a comment for that, you can fill out. We’d love to hear your questions or comments or ideas for future episodes. We’re always up to hearing what our listeners might want to hear us talk about. So please do that. And we appreciate you joining us for today. And we look forward to being with you again soon.

Gina
37:34
Bye, everybody.

Melody
37:35
Bye.

Dave
37:39
Thanks for joining us around the writer’s table. Please feel free to suggest a topic or a guest by emailing info@aroundthewriterstable.com. Music provided with gracious permission by Langtry. A link to their music is on our homepage at AroundTheWritersTable.com. Everyone here around the writer’s table wishes you joy in your writing and everyday grace in your living. Take care, until next time.

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