We had another great discussion around the writers table about trusting the creative process. I shared my own struggles with perfectionism and procrastination, and how learning to trust my process as a pantser has helped me push through to completion. We also talked about the importance of balance between structure and spontaneity. Melody brought up some great points about planning versus pantsing styles and the potential for burnout if we get too rigid. Gina offered helpful insights into examining our plans and why things may not be going as expected.

Overall, it was encouraging to discuss the challenges of this stage and how accountability, revisiting our purpose, and embracing fallow periods can help us stay motivated. Be sure to listen for more tips on overcoming self-doubt and advice from our upcoming author interview. As always, thanks for tuning in!

RESOURCES

Ep. 40: Learning the Rhythms of Our Creative Process

Dave Hogan, Gina’s Pop
0:02
Welcome to Around the Writer’s Table, a podcast focusing on the crossroads of creativity, craft, and conscious living for writers of all ages and backgrounds. Your hosts are Gina, Melody, and KimBoo, three close friends and women of a certain age, who bring to the table their eclectic backgrounds and unique perspectives on the trials, tribulations, and the joys of writing. So pull up a chair and get comfortable here around the writer’s table.

Gina Hogan Edwards
0:43
Hello, listeners. Welcome back to another episode of Around the Writer’s Table. I’m Gina Hogan Edwards and I’m with you today, along with my co-hosts, KimBoo and Melody. We’re going to be talking again about the stage of The Creativity Quest called Trusting the Process. Now in the past, I had called this Three Feet From Gold, which we’re gonna get into in just a moment. But first of all, let us reintroduce ourselves to you. 

How are you ladies? 

KimBoo York
Good morning.

Melody, A Scout
Good morning. 

Gina
Glad to see you here. I missed you while I was away. Thank you for holding down the fort while I was gone and recording an extra episode without me. But here we are regrouping. KimBoo, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself to our listeners. 

KimBoo York
1:33
Sure. I am KimBoo, a novelist and productivity coach for authors. I love writing. I love talking about writing and helping other writers write. I also run the 1 Million Words Club membership community for writers focused on accountability, productivity, and just general support. We’re q really good group of writers there and it’s growing. So I’m enjoying that a lot. And that’s me. I have a lot of irons in the fire as everybody knows. But that’s, you know what? I’m just like, whatever. 

Gina
2:05
Keep plugging away, KimBoo. Glad to see you today. Melody, what’s up for you? Where are ya?

Melody, A Scout
2:14
I am in the Great North Woods of Wisconsin today. Yes, enjoying a very frosty spring morning here. And for those of you who don’t know, I was born and raised in Wisconsin. And I still have family up here. So I’m visiting family and the beautiful North Woods, which I have a very sweet spot in my heart for and I am Melody, A Scout. And I wrote a book called Soul of the Seasons, which we reference a lot in our podcasts, available at the major booksellers and at my website, Soul dash Of dash The dash Seasons dot com.

Gina
3:09
Thank you, Melody. It’s great to be here. And I’m Gina Hogan Edwards. I am passionate about supporting women in finding their voices leaning into their creativity. I’m also an author working on a historical fiction novel, which Melody didn’t mention, but she’s also working. 

KimBoo
Ah, ha. That’s right.

Melody
Oh, that’s right. 

Gina
Yeah. And KimBoo didn’t talk much about her fiction either. But we’re gonna be doing more about that. Okay. All right. So for today, though, we’re going to be diving back into this stage of The Creativity Quest called Trusting the Process. And in the past, I had called it Three Feet From Gold, because the foundation of this stage has to do with the miner who basically was only three feet from striking the richest vein of gold when he gave up, and how in the creative process, we oftentimes are just three feet from gold, and we have the choice to make of whether we’re going to continue and pursue whatever it is that we view as our version of success or accomplishment or completion. Or if we’re just gonna hang up the job and say, I’m done with that. And we have that choice to make over and over and over again.

KimBoo
4:27
Yes, and it’s not a one and done deal.

Gina
4:33
It never is. I mean, within a given project, we have many, many times to make that choice and within the length of our existence as a writer, we have many, many times to make that choice or an artist, a painter, whatever kind of creative endeavor that you pursue. And so, a couple of things I want to emphasize and that we’re going to also touch on when we touch on the next guidepost is that we get to define what the endpoint or the completion or success looks like for us. And so that is also part of Trusting the Process, leaning into what is going to lead us there, leaning into the hills and the valleys of the entire process. So we talked about defining this stage in the last episode. And in this one, we’re going to be talking with Melody about how this guidepost plays out in the seasons of the writer’s process. So I’m gonna turn it over to her to lead us into that discussion.

Melody
5:39
Oh, thanks, Gina. I would say, if you haven’t already listened to it, go back and listen to Episode 38 where Gina gave an in-depth discussion about what this particular part of the process involves. That’ll be a great way to set you up, set the stage for this. In my book Soul of the Seasons, there are five seasons: Spring, Summer, Harvest, Fall, and Winter. I’d also encourage you to go listen to any episodes—we’ll put these in the show notes—and listen to any episode on the season of Summer because that will also give you further background. We’ve been talking about it in terms of the writing process. 

During the season of Summer, productivity is high. There’s bits and bytes flying everywhere, and words, and it’s just a mad dash to get everything done and pull things together and bring your vision for your project into reality. I don’t know about y’all—we’re going to talk about this more during our question-and-answer period— but this can be the most challenging season or part of the season to push through, especially if you have a longer work like a novel. In my case, Soul of the Seasons was nonfiction. It was mmm to get through.

KimBoo
I’m familiar with that feeling. That mmm.

Melody
This is about getting done and you know, balanced. We talk a lot about being balanced and imbalanced during the season. So in this season, balanced Summer looks like you have taken leadership of your life in your project. You pull the things together that you need. You rely on your vision. You rely on your community for support and encouragement and to remind you of your passion. I was thinking about this when we were preparing for this particular podcast. We talk a lot about pantsers and planners, and I am a full-fledged pantser, have been since probably before birth, I would believe. It’s just like, winging it? Yes, that’s my forte. But I have become through, hopefully, some maturation—which summer is a time to mature things and bring them into focus and organization—I’ve become more of a planner. I made an actual outline for my historical novel. I know it is shocking.

KimBoo
9:16
What? Wild talk now. Getting out there.

Melody
9:20
I know. And I’ve got a notebook with little tabs. You know, like holy cow, what am I doing? So, there are rewards and challenges for both panters and planners during this season. And for me as a pantser, one of my challenges was losing focus on my vision and getting sidetracked easily. I’m wondering if either one or both of you can talk about… I don’t know, Gina, would you even consider yourself a pantser? You’re a pretty good planner.

KimBoo
10:09
She’s waving her hand at the camera. Listeners can’t see her, but she’s got her hand up in the air.

Gina
10:17
Me, me, pick me.

There are so many things that you said that sparked things. First of all, before I go into the things that what you said sparked, I would love for you to tell me a little bit, remind me a little bit from your book, about what an imbalance in Summer looks like. You mentioned losing focus, but tell me a little bit about what that imbalance looks like.

Melody
10:47
Well, the imbalance looks like a lot of chaos a lot of times. Because there’s so much going on during this season, if you don’t keep your vision in mind, even in your head, if you have your outline in your head, and you don’t refer back to that, you will become scattered. You’ll possibly have burnout, because you’re chasing yourself around a lot, and not making forward progress. You’ll lose your passion and get discouraged sometimes, because it just seems like there’s so much to do and you don’t know what to do and how to focus and do it.

Gina
11:32
Would you stop describing me, please?

Melody
11:41
Okay. I am done.

KimBoo
Someone feels called out. All right.

Gina
11:42
I find it extremely interesting that your approach to Trusting the Process led you from the sort of—I hate to use the word ‘chaos’ in relation to pantsers, but that’s what it looks like to people who aren’t pantsers. But the process of pantsing that you are now leaning more toward the outlining and the planning, because I’m in the opposite. I’ve always considered myself very much a planner, very much: “We got to have it organized. I got to know what the next step is.” And that has not been working for me, and I’ve realized that it’s because I was going against my natural inclinations to trust the process of pantsing. 

So I’m definitely not 100% a pantser. I’m that in-between sort of person, leaning into discovery writing, which KimBoo talks about in one of her new books, which is amazing, and actually helping her edit that book is what opened me up to the things that I had been shutting down in my creative process that I wasn’t trusting in my creative process [but] that are going to help me move forward in my project. And I’m now beginning to see some of the fruits of that trust. So that’s all I’m gonna say about that for now, because I know you have some questions for us. And I’m gonna probably have a lot to say about those too.

KimBoo
13:15
Well, you know what? I’m actually going to take the reins and riff on that for a moment, because I did. In my book, I really did a lot of exploration and talking with authors myself. And I think it’s important, in this particular element, to realize the chaos can manifest itself in a lot of ways. Because like, a lot of people hate chaos. Like you said, Gina, people look at pantsers like me—I’m a total pantser—and they’re like, “That’s just pure chaos.” On my side, it’s not. 

But sometimes if you are a planner, even if you’re a planner by nature, and not into discovery writing at all, there can be times when you’re over-planning, you’re over-outlining, you’re constantly refining and redoing an outline, and that’s its own form of chaos, right? That’s not Yes. So I just just wanted to throw that in there that chaos can look very different for different people. It’s not just throwing everything up in the wind and watching the wind carry it away. So that’s something that I thought. It was like, oh, yeah, my chaos might look not like chaos to other people.

Melody
14:22
Yeah, yeah, and just as anything in life, there are light and dark sides to everything. I would be bold enough to say that everybody needs a little chaos every once in a while. 

KimBoo
A little bit, maybe.

Melody
Or maybe a lot. I don’t know. It shakes things up. It makes you look at things differently, makes you look at your projects differently, and can be part of the process. I would say the challenge when you go too far with the pantser thing is losing sight of your vision and intention. And that discouragement that can come with that. All the steam. I have done it. This has been a pattern, not only in my writing, but—shocking—in my life, in other areas, too, where I start something, I get really excited about it, I do it, I may even learn a lot about it, study about it, and then I just lose interest. For me, that’s burnout. If I am having the chaos and I’m not making forward progression is when it really starts to go downhill for me.

KimBoo
15:57
Yeah, that makes sense. Yes.

Melody
15:59
And Gina, you described some of the challenges of planners too. And you know, a lot of people get a lot of juice from planning. 

My friend, Renee, who is a professor—I don’t think she’ll mind me sharing this story with you. But she is a planner. As a professor, a teacher, you have to do a lot of planning. So she likes to plan her summer vacations, her time off from school, and she told me about a time where she planned, she made a world atlas part, gave her projects a whole color-coded nations and detail, spent a lot of time, very detailed chart and had a lot of fun doing it. And I said, well, so how did it go with getting those things done? 

“Oh, I didn’t do any of those.” [laughter]

She had a lot of fun doing it. But it didn’t help her implement any of those things that she wanted to do. And … 

Gina
17:15
I get that. I think there’s a juice that comes for certain people—and I’m one of them—from the simple organization of whatever it is, whether it’s putting things into a spreadsheet, or creating a social media plan, or organizing your notes for a novel, or whatever it is, planning a wedding. All those details, getting them in line, but then the actual work of doing it has a whole different energy to it, and if you’re not prepared to make that transition from the organizational state into the actual doing of the thing, then it won’t ever get done. That only took me about 50 years to learn.

KimBoo
Some of us are still learning it.

Melody
18:05
Yeah, and myself for the flip side, because I think one of my resistance, part of my resistance to planning has been it felt like it put a damper on my creativity. And then because the way my mind works, I think, “Well how can I plan for something? What if this happened? What if that happened? That could do this. Or this could do that. And what good would all those plans do?” And some of it, true confession, had to do with some rebellion. I’ve got a bit of rebellion in it. You ain’t gonna tell me what to do.

KimBoo
18:55
I love that form of rebellion…

Melody
It’s me talking to me.

KimBoo
Right, exactly, talking to yourself. It’s when we’re like, you’re not gonna tell me what to do. But. . . I’m me. But hold on.

Melody
19:04
Absolutely. So I am more than a little curious, and I would like to hear at least one example from each of you of a time that you struggled with this part of the creative cycle and how you managed it or didn’t. So, KimBoo, let’s start with you.

KimBoo
19:32
Oh, darn it. Okay. I have so many options to choose from on this one. I think one of the biggest challenges that I have when we get to this stage of Trusting the Process, Three Feet From Gold, everything’s very busy, is I—my natural instinct when stressed out is to what my friends lovingly refer to as ‘turtle.’ So I just pull back from everything, and I hide in my little turtle shell, and just pretend like you can’t see me. I don’t exist. You can’t hear from me. And I pull back from the projects, which I don’t really give up on them. It’s interesting. I don’t know if it’s my natural instinct trying to get me space from it, which I think, as I get older, I think might be the actual element of it. As I get to understand my brain better, I think what happens is I get myself into this kind of, as you pointed, as you call it, this sort of chaos, where I’ve got so many strands in the story, and I’ve got so many things, and I want to try to wrap it up and finish it, and I kind of know how it’s going to be finished. But I’m just so overwhelmed, I can’t deal with it. So I just kind of step back from the project a little bit. 

And in the past, I berated myself for that. In the past, I used to be like, “You’re so close to finishing this project, you’re just, you’re just a loser, you can’t finish anything.” Right? That kind of hateful self-talk. 

But what I’ve realized is—and part of this is because of what I’ve studied as far as being a discovery writer, a pantser—is that my brain needs to organically find those resolutions to those plot elements in those stories, and I can’t do that if I’m stressed out about them. So it’s kind of like my brain saying, “Okay, let’s take a step back and look at the forest instead of focusing on going from tree to tree to tree to tree to tree, and take a look at what the story really needs in order to be wrapped up and finish.” 

And sometimes that can take a few weeks, and sometimes—I hate to say it, I don’t want to scare people—but sometimes, it’s taken a couple of years. I think that was one of the reasons Wolves of Harmony Heights, which I did start as a novel-writing, NaNoWriMo, novel-writing month project, in 2015. It didn’t get done till 2017. That was a huge rush of writing, I wrote the majority of it over about six, seven months, then I just stalled. And it took another six months of just letting it sit and stew before I could come back to it. Then, of course, I finished it, and it was published in late 2017. And it’s been revised a few times since then. 

But that’s something I’ve had to learn about myself and accept about myself. And I think that’s been the hardest part.

Melody
22:39
That’s a great point. Really.

Gina
22:42
Well, it’s a valid recognition that this Trusting the Process has to do with not only the actions that we take, but also how we feel about the actions that we’re taking and what we’re trying to get to or become or get on the page. So there’s such a—I sort of look at this guidepost—we talked about how this is not a linear or cyclical process, and this is definitely one of those guideposts that, even though we talk about being Three Feet From Gold and attaining this certain thing, that this is one of those guideposts that sort of overlays everything else, because, for instance, when you’re in resistance, recognizing what that resistance is about and why it’s happening, and trusting that it’s happening for a reason. So there’s elements of Trusting the Process that have to show up within, and in conjunction with, all of the other guideposts in this process. Does that make sense to you, ladies?

KimBoo
It does to me. Yeah.

Melody
23:57
Yeah, it makes perfect sense. And I’ve been on both sides of that equation. I remember when I was writing my book, and Gina, you wisely recommended me to take regular breaks, which I really needed. It helped give my mind a rest. It helped me get a new perspective and to look at my work with fresh eyes. And it helped me re-gather my joy and passion for what I was doing. I tend to be a harsh taskmaster with myself and it took me a while to learn my own rhythm and process.

Gina
24:52
And that is so important, is recognizing when we have repeated certain ways of being that may . . .  You know, we tend to beat ourselves up about things. In answer to your question about an example, when I’ve struggled or a client has struggled, it’s usually in the fallow periods that we struggle the most. Right? We beat ourselves up about, “I’m not creative enough. Or I just, I’m doing something wrong,” when that fallow period may actually be what you need in that moment. And that’s where theTrusting the Process comes in. 

So be guarded about jumping to beating yourself up when you’re in a place of not creating, and really examine whether it’s because you’re stuck on something. Maybe there’s just something else you need to learn, or maybe you need to get to know that character a little bit better. But it may not be a matter of you not being creative enough or not having enough ideas or . . . and I think that that’s kind of the self talk that sometimes we tend to go to when we’re in a period of not creating.

KimBoo
26:09
That kind of element, that idea of Three Feet From Gold, you convince yourself the gold isn’t there.

Gina
26:17
Yes. Or you suddenly decide you’re going to redefine what that is, you know. And sometimes we do that on a sort of subconscious level. It’s like we carry these expectations that sometimes causes us to shift what we think that that end point is, and then we think that we’re much further away from it than we are, or we think that it doesn’t exist at all. 

The other time that I’ve seen people really struggle is when things are not going as planned, especially if they do lean into the planning. And if things are not going as they planned, they get this sort of sense of maybe a lack of control. And again, it’s easy to spin out then into this self-talk about, “Oh, well, my plan must not have been a good plan. Or why can’t I stick to a plan?” And, you know, maybe there’s a reason why you’re having this sort of feeling of going off the rails. Examine why that is?

Melody
27:22
Well, and that totally ties in with, I know both KimBoo and Gina work with clients. And I think we’ve talked about this before, why this can be the most challenging part of the creative process, and when most people quit or give up. And what do each of you have to offer your clients or your fellow writers when they come to this point in their writing process? Gina?

Gina
28:05
When I was talking about examining why you’re in a fallow period or why you feel like you’ve gone off the rails if you’ve had a plan, sometimes we’re too close to the situation to be able to answer those questions for ourselves. That’s when I feel like a good coach or a good support system, it can be your writing group, it could be your best friend, somebody that you can have as a sounding board for, “Hey, here’s what’s happening. And I need to look at this from a different perspective. I need to look at this from every angle. And can you help me do that?” 

For me, working with my clients, the thing that I lean into is asking really quality questions, asking them questions that help them discern for themselves whether they’re in a place of lack of control or they’ve just got a plan they need to revise.

Melody
29:04
I find well-placed and well-timed questions to be these portals of wisdom that open us up to looking at things from a different perspective and so useful. And I think all three of us are really good at asking good questions. 

KimBoo
Oh, thank you.

Melody
Yeah, so what about you KimBoo? What do you offer your clients? 

KimBoo
29:33
Since my focus is less is, well, so my focus is less as a creativity coach, which I think that’s something that’s very important for Gina. I’m a productivity coach, right? So it’s yes, they get into that final stretch and everything starts unraveling and they’re dealing with chaos. And this is so pedantic, and nobody believes me when I tell them, and I just have to walk them through it. I’m just like, “When you’re going through hell, keep going. Just keep writing. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other.” 

There might be a fallow element to it in the sense of you can’t write fresh words, but you might be able to go back and edit, or you might be able to work on a different project, or you might be able to do something else. But I think the biggest thing is that people get into the spiral loop of how awful everything is and how they’re feeling and how chaotic it is. And some people just need to step back and rejigger the plan a little bit. And some people need to ask those questions, like you’re talking about, Gina. Some of the bigger questions: is this project really meant to be what I thought it was going to be, or has it become something else?

But the point that I try to work with my clients is it doesn’t have to be [that] you’re writing 200 words a day on the story. It can be other things, but just don’t stop. Just don’t stop.

Gina
Stay in the game, in some for or fashion.. 

KimBoo
Stay in the game, in some form or fashion. It doesn’t have to be that 200 words a day or that 500 words a day, or editing a chapter a week or something, but stay in the game, somehow. Keep your mind in the game somehow and you will get to the other side. That’s one of my biggest difficulties sometimes with clients, because they just want to throw their hands up. You know, just keep going, just going.

Melody
31:43
That reminds me–those are great tips—and reminds me of what was most helpful for me in finishing Soul of the Seasons was going back over what I had written would help me reignite the passion for the material. It would remind me there was value in what I was doing and get that spark going again. So the editing process or proofreading is a way to remind yourself of why you started this in the first place. 

Another thing that has always been really helpful and valuable for me is accountability. And so Gina, as my editor would—she wasn’t a harsh taskmaster or anything—but she would say, “Okay, so give me a timeline.” And, you know, I will do something for other people; I will be accountable to someone. If you don’t have an editor, even a writing buddy, where you can talk or meet with or Zoom with, and go over and read to each other is a great way. If I commit to being in a reading session or something with another writer, I make sure I have my homework done. And so that accountability factor has been really important for me. Also, I find…

KimBoo
I wanna jump… oh, I’m sorry.

Melody
Go ahead, because you are an accountability coach, KimBoo.

KimBoo
33:27
Well, I was just gonna throw in a little plug. I was just gonna throw in a little plug for the 1 Million Words Club, because that was really one of the reasons I started it was to have a place where writers can be accountable to each other, where we can do co-writing sessions and writing sprints, where it’s not all about pushing each other. A lot of writing groups that I’ve been in have been—especially for professional authors, but even amateurs—it’s been about how many words did you write this week? And when are you going to get this published? And how fast and hard are you going? 

But I find the more laid back just accountability, “Hey, I’m gonna work on this poem. Hey, I’m going to work on this blog post. Or I want to try to hit 200 words,” it means so much for an author. That’s one of the reasons why I started the group because I wanted that for myself, because you’re right, that even if it’s just low, low heat accountability, it can take you a long way. 

Melody
34:17
Yeah. Well, very supportive. I do not respond well to drill sergeants. So yeah, those people are not in my accountability circles. 

The other thing I’d like to put in is to revisit both the different seasons of the writing process—look at the ways we’ve all got this listed on the worksheets here so you can refer to; it’s in my book—if you look at those tables in there that show the balanced and then there’s good questions at the end of each chapter about: how can you bring this season into what you’re doing now? So even though you’re in late summer, go through those seasons of the writing process and draw in some support from the other season. So in Harvest, it’s being in appreciation and self-care for the work that you have done. In Fall, it’s about letting go and valuing what’s really important and precious. In winter, it’s about taking a break and letting the creative process start bubbling again. In spring, it’s about all the exciting new growth and planning. I would also recommend, go back to The Creativity Quest and see what that can bring, especially if you’re feeling stuck and overwhelmed.

KimBoo
36:00
That’s a good idea.

Gina
36:00
You alluded to a couple of things that is another really good answer, I think, to what folks can do when they’re struggling at this stage or phase, and that is revisiting your “Why.” Melody, you talked about tapping into Fall and valuing yourself, and I think that that’s related to checking back in with, “Why are you doing this? Why are you writing? Why are you doing this project? What is it that drew you to it in the first place?” And I’ll think a lot of times that that can help us realign or re-energize and get back on track if we feel like we’re in the chaos.

KimBoo
36:50
Great advice. We’re gonna have links on the show notes to overviews about The Creativity Quest and the seasons of writings, plus links to former episodes. We’ve got a whole website where you can go trolling through all of our older episodes to see what might interest you and speaks to you right now. But we will have links to the ones that we’ve specifically discussed in this particular episode. Also, we do have a Trusting the Process worksheet. I’m going to repost that in conjunction with this episode, as well as the previous one where we were talking in Episode 38, you said? 

Gina
Yeah, Episode 38. 

KimBoo
So I’ll have all that on the website.

Gina
37:36
So, ladies, do you realize that we only have one more guidepost to cover? We’ve talked about nine now. 

KimBoo
37:42
What? This is wild to me. 

Gina
It is wild.

KimBoo
We got all the way through the seasons of writing. We’re getting all the way through The Creativity Quest, we’ve been at this for a little while now. Who could have dreamed it?

Gina
37:54
We have, and I do want to also let listeners know that we’re going to be doing some new things now that we’re coming to the end of The Creativity Quest. We do have this additional guidepost to cover, which we’re going to do in the future. But between now and then we’ve also got a special episode next time where I interview author Rhett DeVane. She writes Southern fiction, and we talk in depth about a couple of upcoming books that she’s got and about the themes that continuously show up in her writing. So you all, definitely tune into that next time. Then after that, we’re going to do our wrap-up of The Creativity Quest, talking about this final stage and then doing a wrap-up session on all ten stages.

KimBoo
38:48
Yeah, I’m looking forward to the interview and Rhett, she’s a hoot, as they say. She’s great. So definitely be looking for that in the next episode. It’ll be great. 

Gina
39:01
And in coming months, we will be alternating. You guys will be hearing the three of us chatting with each other about different topics related to writing, and we’re going to weave in interviews with other authors. So you’ll be hearing from other people besides just us in the future.

KimBoo
39:17
Mm hmm.

Melody
39:18
I’m excited about that.

KimBoo
39:20
Got some exciting plans up ahead. So I think that’s it for us. We, as usual, talk longer than we always plan. That’s not new. That has not changed in 40 episodes. But appreciate y’all listening in and tuning in. If you can give us a thumbs up on any of the distribution apps that you’re on, whether it’s Spotify or Apple podcasts. Visit our website for the downloads of the worksheets and guides, for the show notes and transcripts, which we always do get up with the episodes. So we appreciate y’all listening and thank you for joining us.

Melody
39:56
Bye, y’all.

Gina
39:57
Bye.

Dave
40:01
Thanks for joining us around the writer’s table. Please feel free to suggest a topic or a guest by emailing info@aroundthewriterstable.com. Music provided with gracious permission by Langtry. A link to their music is on our homepage at AroundTheWritersTable.com. Everyone here around the writer’s table wishes you joy in your writing and everyday grace in your living. Take care, until next time.

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